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José Antonio Marina
M - Entrevista sobre la creativad a José Antonio Marina
Santiago de Compostela. Julio 2008
/ Martes 26 de febrero de 2008
 imprimir Versión imprimir 
 

¿Qué relación tiene tu vida con la creatividad, porqué has llegado tú a hablar en algún momento de tu vida de creatividad?

Mira a mi me intereso desde que terminé la carrera de filosofía, lo que me interesaba era el funcionamiento de la inteligencia, una vez que yo considero que mi especialidad es la inteligencia, dentro del funcionamiento de la inteligencia me interesaban más los aspectos más inventivos o creadores de la inteligencia porque eran los más espectaculares y porque pensaba que al aclarar los mecanismos de la creación, iba a tener que aclarar los mecanismos de la inteligencia básica. Es muy posible que estemos olvidando que los funcionamientos básicos de la inteligencia son extraordinariamente creadores por ejemplo, la gran distancia está entre la capacidad expresiva de un chimpancé y la capacidad de un niño de decir una frase después entre la capacidad de decir una frase y escribir el canto general de Neruda ya hay mucha menos diferencia. En principio el gran salto creado está en zonas muy básicas y eso es lo que hace que la capacidad de hacer innovaciones sea una característica básica , común y por lo tanto desarrollable de la inteligencia humana. Y fue por eso por lo que yo a partir de la actividad de la inteligencia pase al estudio de unos fenómenos especiales que los los fenómenos de creación.

¿Y eso es investigable?

Si es investigable, es difícilmente investigable, porque son temas que utilizan conceptos muy borrosos y que se han cogido por con el peor sesgo. Se ha insistido muchisimo en la anécdota en decir vaguedades, se ha estudiado casi a partir de una especie de psicología de la personalidad, ¡vamos a hacer personalidades creativas¡, con lo cual ahí se ha mezclado de todo, se ha mezclado parte de psicoterapia, parte de animación cultural parte de animación a secas y eso yo creo que está en este momento en crisis, eso no da más de sí. Y ahora va haber que empezar con el aspecto duro de la teoría de la creatividad. Ya se ha llamado la atención sobre el tema, ten en cuenta que sobre el tema este yo creo que fué Guilford el primero que empezó a llamar la atención en el año 50. Hasta entonces no se consideraba que esto tuviera nada estudiable, entre otras cosas porque todas las ideas sobre creatividad estaban contaminadas por la idea de inspiración, y naturalmente como la inspiración es algo misterioso, sublime, divino..... ahí no hay nada que estudiar. Hubo primero que llamar la atención, en eso hemos estado casi 40 años. Y yo creo que ahora tenemos que hacer investigación básica , seria o el tema este se va a desprestigiar y va a quedar como una especie de disciplina muy marginal, muy para aficionados llenos de entusiasmo y elocuentes y para mucho aprovechado, es decir, por ejemplo, yo me alegro mucho del éxito del War de Bono con su cursos sobre creatividad, pero la base teórica que hay en las cosas de Bono es muy probrecita. Que haya montado una especie de industria de la creatividad hace que a la creatividad este llendo mucha persona con vocación de guru y hay los gurus de la creatividad, como hay los del marketing, los gurus de la asociación de empresa, y luego cuando lees lo que dicen, lo que dicen son bobadas, pero lo dicen con mucha presunción con mucha seguridad en sí mismo , y cobrando una pasta que es lo que actúa como prestigiador. Si esta persona cobra un millón de pesetas por una conferencia debe ser fantástico, lo importante ha sido crearse un prestigio para cobrar un millón de pesetas por conferencia y luego el millón de pesetas por conferencia prestigia lo que haces, que muchas veces no merecía ningún prestigio.

¿No hay otra forma de llamarle a la creatividad? Porque a mí me está cansando un poco el vocablo.

A mí también me está cansando muchisimo, y tanto es así que yo no lo utilice en mi libro , lo llamé el libro de la inteligencia creadora porque no quería manejar la palabra creatividad . La creatividad tiene un sufijo desagradable porque parece que se está hablando de un rasgo de personalidad, como la agresividad por ejemplo, y yo creo que no es por ahí por donde debíamos ir, debíamos ir hacia estas nuevas líneas del desarrollo de la inteligencia. Hay dos tipos de inteligencia humana; la inteligencia humana computacional que maneja rutinas y la inteligencia humana que se puede llamar creadora o ejecutiva, que es capaz de dirigirse mediante proyectos, uno de los proyectos es el de producir novedades y esa rama sería lo que dirige los procesos de la inteligencia hacia un determinado estilo de hacer cosas, que son los estilos que busca la innovación. A lo mejor podía ser inteligencia innovadora más que creatividad, porque si es verdad que tiene que tener un aspecto de innovación, no es sufiente para definir la creatividad. Porque la innovación puede hacerse por negación de lo común que es a lo que nos estamos refiriendo muchas veces, si a lo comun, a lo normal, a lo acostumbrado lo transgredes de alguna manera sí has hecho un determinado tipo de novedad una innovación con conocimientos absolutamente mecánicos. Niego lo que hay, si yo me pongo encima de la mesa para dar una conferencia he hecho una innovación, pero una innovación que no va a ningún lado, por eso en este momento el punto duro de la investigación en inteligencia innovadora es como se valora las innovaciones, porque no todas las innovaciones son valiosas, ni son creativas, ni son dignas de ser consideradas. Hasta ahora se ha estudiado mucho el aspecto espontaneo o expresivo de la creatividad y se han eludido los aspectos de criterio, ¿pero esto como se valora? Por eso estamos incluso enseñando una creatividad que no vale para nada, y es de muy poquito valor, porque le estamos diciendo, mira haz lo quieras, y hacer lo que quieras no es ser creador no es ser creativo, y si tienes calidad en lo que haces serás bueno y sino harás majaderías que no valen para nada. Estamos confundiendo creatividad con espontaneidad y eso es un disparate. Mi burro es muy espontáneo, pega cada coz que abruma al personal, pero no se puede decir que sea creador.

Ahora vas a dar una conferencia en el Master Internacional de Creatividad ¿Qué le pedirías a este Master que pretende formar en creatividad?

Rigor en investigación básica, y rigor en investigación sobre los valores que prestigian la creatividad, no puede haber una creación digna si no tenemos antes unos criterios de evaluación muy estrictos. Y ese es el punto difícil en este tiempo. Porque respecto de los procedimientos creadores que es donde se está ahora insistiendo más, la sinéctica, el pensamiento lateral, todas esas cosas son muy facilitas, son técnicas que aunque las llegues a dominar se parecen mucho a las enseñanzas de las técnicas de un idioma. Naturalmente para poder escribir bien en chino, tienes que saber chino, pero no todos los que saben chino escriben bien. Son dos niveles distintos de inteligencia, la inteligencia que conoce los hábitos, los procedimientos para hacer las cosas y luego la que es capaz de evaluar bien lo que está haciendo y de proponerse planes que tengan calidad.

Una de las técnicas que a mi me pasma es la técnica de la tormenta de ideas, vamos a haber en que consiste la tormenta de ideas, en lo que consiste es en: vamos a situarnos en un ambiente estimulante donde no se juzgue nada para evitar los bloqueos psicológicos de las ocurrencias. Muy bien en ese primer punto, desde un punto de vista si quieres hasta psicoterapeutico, el poder uno decir lo se le ocurra sin estar reprimiéndose, el número de ocurrencias va a ser mayor pero en algún momento habrá que juzgar esas ocurrencias porque sino todas las ocurrencias pueden ser una cantidad numerosísima de tonterías. Claro que es importante, porque muchas veces estamos demasiado preocupados por la mirada ajena o por el juicio de los demás y eso inhibe nuestra capacidad de pensar, de tener ocurrencias de imaginar cosas, pero eso no quiere decir que si yo quito esas coacciones externas, de repente me voy a convertir en un creador. No, me he convertido en una persona sin bloqueos para dejar fluir esas ocurrencias, pero luego ¿como son esas ocurrencias? pues a lo mejor son ocurrencias muy tontas.

Un caso que a mi me gusta estudiar mucho, es el de que corremos el peligro de hacer una teoría de la creatividad tomando como modelo un arte que a mí me parece muy poco creativo como es el arte plástico. El arte plástico que tuvo un gran esplendor creativo en los años 20 y 30 ahora a está repitiendo absolutamente todo, estamos todavía con la estética del dadaísmo, con la estética del surrealismo, del cubismo y punto, no hay más. Que nos ha traído eso, nos ha traído la idea de que la creatividad va en contra de la percepción técnica, y todo el mundo piensa que no es necesario estar 15 años en un taller aprendiendo técnicas de pintura, sino que se inventan sus propias técnicas. Pero es que ¡eso es expresividad¡ y la expresividad no tiene porque ser creatividad , eso es otra cosa. Usted puede tener dos cosas una de ellas es la capacidad de expresar lo que siente, pero lo que siente puede ser una mamonada y la manera de expresarlo puede ser una tontería. Desde el punto de vista suyo, personal, hace muy bien en expresarse, pero eso es psicoterapia, no es creatividad.


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